An interview with Prajnaparamita on enlightenment,

the different approaches of her Masters and masculine and feminine qualities.

 

 

 

Your teachers were Alexander Smit (a disciple of Nisargadatta) and ShantiMayi, a man and a woman. Possibly two entirely different approaches. Could it be that, generally speaking, there is a difference in approach between men and women?
 
Over the last thirty years I have met many Masters all over the world. And wherever I came, there was a different, unique atmosphere and 'way of behaving'. In the gatherings, different issues were stressed; sometimes the codes of behaviour were strict.

 

I remember the first time I came to India, more than twenty years ago. I travelled directly to Tiruvannamalai, to the ashram of Ramana Maharshi. On arrival, I was very tired and went to the kitchen to ask for something to drink. Before I could even open my mouth I was chased out like a dog. I didn't have the faintest idea of the code of conduct in an Indian ashram and made blunder after blunder. So I learned, through the strict hand of rejection, through being vigilant and imitating their ways. A whole world opened up to me of removing my shoes, of sitting on the floor and of where that was allowed, and I got an ever growing insight into the many ways of greeting and bowing. Many years later I was in satsang with Papaji in Lucknow. Here the atmosphere was mostly easy-going: people walked in and out of the hall during satsang and you could lie on the floor or listen to music through your earphones.

 

Between each of the Masters, there were great differences in form and content. That has nothing to do with being a man or a woman, but with culture, the Master's character and sometimes with the setting the Master has matured in themselves, with what has served them as an example. 'Guru' is a neutral principle, free of gender.   

 

 

What struck you most in Alexander Smit's approach? 

When I met Alexander, in the early eighties, I was thrilled by his straightforwardness. All I wanted was essence and that was what I got in his teaching. I had already found out that true happiness could only be found in realising absolute freedom, and I knew straight away that I was in the right place. What I did not like was that immediacy could not be realised immediately!  I was passionate, desperate and impatient and did not want to allow for any process or time in my awakening. It was going to take many years for this impetuosity to purify and mature into timeless patience.

 

  

 

And how was it for you being with ShantiMayi?
 
When I met ShantiMayi I had been receiving the teachings for so many years and had been reading so many non-dual scriptures and books. I knew it all, but I realized that awakening had not yet taken place. ShantiMayi's ambience was more Indian. Here I met with mantras, singing and ceremonies, about which I - with a thorough Advaita training - had quite some judgements!  It took some time before I could experience the beauty and depth of this. The satsangs, that for so many years had set me aglow and that had given me so many wonderful and bewildering insights, those satsangs had become boring to me, I knew the words so well …. 

 

If I had met ShantiMayi without the great knowledge I had received from Alexander, then of course I would have deeply absorbed the verbal teachings from her.

 

But now, something else had to awaken in me, something much more subtle than knowledge. I learned to listen to the language of silence in and underneath the words. During satsang I was in deep meditation and simply immersed myself in the realm of the Sacha Lineage*, just by silently and receptively being present.

 

It is hard to say what struck me in the different approaches. From Alexander I received the spiritual knowledge and the great 'nothing'. With ShantiMayi my inner journey came to completion by the eradication of all insights and surrender to 'everything'.           

       
Over the years my being had simply been moulded by what was happening in the intimate contact with the Masters. What I imagined that I 'needed': a serene atmosphere of silence and harmony around my Guru, I never got. What I discovered however, was much more precious: freedom from my mind-made conditions, freedom from ideas and expectations. I found out that it does not matter at all what goes on in the vicinity of a Guru. I was the one who had chosen for this togetherness through a deep longing and a fundamental trust. And then, whatever happens, happens. And I had to learn that it was up to me - in the fire of this delicate bond - to lay down resistance, comment and expectations.

 

 

What do you mean by fire?
 
The desire to awaken is a fire of longing, burning in your heart. In the sphere of the Master light is thrown into you and this inner fire flares up. Thus all illusion is burned and your being becomes purified, emptied and available. Navigating by the compass of truth, empowered and inspired by the Master, a life of service emerges, in which all demand of being cherished has been laid down.

 

 

What do you mean by 'being cherished'?
 
Look how we want to be reassured all the time, and how much we want confirmation and recognition and are craving for love. Words that may give us a sense of security, but pacify a profound feeling of helplessness.

 

You know, it is so wonderful: words can veil and also reveal, as in the enlightened speech of the Masters. Your need to be cherished thaws through courageously seeing what is, by going into the fire of the intensity of naked truth. Truth liberates. Truth liberates from craving and delusion. And so your life comes to acceptance, to full acceptance and surrender.

 

 

 

I direct people's attention inward, back to who they really are. The heart is a symbol for that. The heart knows neither comparison nor suffering, peace abides in the heart, One abides in the heart.

 

My teaching is not pure Advaita Vedanta, but more universally non-dual. Actually, the word 'teaching' does not really apply. Rather, it is repeatedly showing the veiled and denied aspects of life in a continuous encouragement and appeal towards the realization of totality.

 

Feeling and thinking keep their places. But in awakening thinking loses its tyranny through deep relaxation and realizing without a shadow of a doubt that all thoughts are illusionary. Then the tyranny of feelings loses its power, as feelings no longer need to be suppressed or entertained, but simply experienced.
The path is entirely unique for everybody. But feminine and masculine qualities awaken in everybody, and a clear mind warms the heart and a warm heart clarifies the mind. There is no Jnani* without an inner Bhakta* and in every Bhakta, a Jnani is waking up. Wisdom and love are One, awakening is total.

 

 

Is meditation necessary?
 
That rather depends. I look at what might be the best medicine for somebody at this particular moment. To some, the 'racehorses', I suggest to put down everything for one minute every hour, to stop, just for a moment.  This works miracles, it breaks the rush, it breaks the stream of thoughts, one moment of self-reflection, many times a day.
 
Often I meet people who tell me that they have been meditating for several decades and have become extremely frustrated. I ask them simply to stop it. That perplexes them, but soon after they are enormously relieved.  I challenge them to live life as awareness, just being aware, washing the dishes, with the children, during work. A deep relaxation comes into their lives, wherein spiritual expectations evaporate in the simplicity of every day life. Daily life begins to vibrate in the immediacy of this awareness and becomes more and more free from ideas about awakening. Precisely in the cessation of needing to make something happen, a profound rest sets in and life itself becomes meditation. And then …. often a yearning arises to sit and get immersed in the silence of the heart. Then meditation becomes very natural, like golden blissful moments of communion with Divinity.

 

 

Will you say something about enlightenment? What does this mean to you?
 
Awakening is defined in so many different ways. Nisargadatta deals with it quickly: no longer imagining to be identified with body, thoughts and feelings. Some have an experience of oneness and believe that that is awakening. I call it 'peeking into God's kitchen' and life will show you how single-sighted and transparent your view is and how light your life. Often such a wonderful experience is a new beginning, after which a long period follows of purification and stilling.

 

Let me attempt to colour this concept from my own experience: Enlightenment is extinction, the extinction of longing for liberation, the extinction of lack and suffering, extinction of resistance and of splitting judgments. Your being opens up and falls into deep rest. Nothing needs to be proven any more, nothing needs to be denied any more, nothing needs to be protected any more. Life is lived no longer as an imagined person, but as life itself, very common, very neutral, very fulfilled.

 

 

Would you say something more about male or female Guru?  
 
I have never seen my Masters as men or women. I have never seen spiritual paths as masculine or feminine. For me there is no such thing as male or female spirituality. But you know, this is easy for me to say. I come from a family where as early as the beginning of the 20^th century the women went to university.  In our family boys and girls had the same rights and education. The entire feminist movement was therefore completely foreign to me.

 

I am aware that this has been an exceptional privilege. Nothing of the sort is to be expected in for example some Buddhist traditions, where the highest nun is seen as inferior, both in rank and faculty to receive the spiritual teachings, to the lowest-grade monk. In many traditions, cultures and families, there is a prevailing difference between men and women. But since we are discussing women's ways, I would like to make a plea in favour of living so-called feminine qualities. These days, when all over the world we taste the bitter fruits of greed and exploitation, it seems to me of utmost importance that we all, men and women, move from grabbing to giving. For too long the very foundation of life has been interfered with and jeopardized. We are all together here on this wonderful, precious Earth. We can no longer continue to abuse the Earth, the animals, each other and ourselves. Now, more than ever, this feminine sense of connectedness and receptivity are very much needed. Now, more than ever, abilities that are foremost in women such as dedication, tenderness and intuition are essential.  Let's honour her, the essence of woman, giver and guardian of all life.

 

 

I hear you say this, but isn't life an illusion?  

 

Life is neither true nor untrue. All experiences are true in the context of time and space. Essentially existence is a hologram, empty of reality and substance. Awakened ones also act and may have desires. But their desires are empty and their actions hardly leave any trace behind. However, many Masters do have a great intention to help countless people transform their lives from suffering to Love, from I to Thou. In the Sacha lineage this has been a mission for centuries, calling upon all of humanity to no longer entertain ideas of separation but to come to realize undividable One. This intention is a Bodhisattva sentiment, free from expectations and deeply rooted in the doubtless realization of God's perfection.
I find this very beautiful and I would like to call upon everybody to live as a beacon of light in our extraordinary, beautiful world.  

 

 

* Sacha Lineage: the lineage Prajnaparamita is deeply connected with through her Guru ShantiMayi.

  

* Jnani: the awakened one, referring to the path of discrimination: what is true, what is not true.

  

* Bhakta: the awakened one, referring to the way of the heart: love and surrender.